> Last ; Thread Tools Display Modes #1551 Old 03-29-2007, 10:53 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 Given its size, 3 PNC won't stick out greatly in the skyline so on a closer level (or ground level) I think that it will look sharp. Reply With Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1552 Old 03-29-2007, 11:51 PM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 Quote: Originally Posted by Grego43 View Post I like your renderings much better, BOM. My opinion is that the rendering of 3 PNC conveys a look that is uninspiring, bland, perhaps even banal. I hope it much different when built. yeah... all it is is the world's largest LEED-certified green mixed-use tower... __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1553 Old 03-30-2007, 12:38 AM hyperion1110's Avatar hyperion1110 hyperion1110 is offline Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 103 I don't understand where people are coming from saying 3 PNC is an unattractive building. I think it looks quite interesting in the renderings, and I'm sure it will look nice when it's actually built. On a separate note...check this out... http://www.post-gazette.com/journal/...y.asp?ID=21160 Eat your heart out, San Francisco Reply With Quote hyperion1110 View Public Profile Find all posts by hyperion1110 #1554 Old 03-30-2007, 05:41 AM xyagentguy xyagentguy is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 40 Hello everyone. I am new to this forum, which is great by the way, and I have a few questions. Forgive the possible redundancy, I've tried skimming through the pages but you are at over 60 now. haha. 1. I love the site!! Are you missing any projects? Are the Carlyle and Duquesne development not included? One little suggestion, it might be helpful to categorize them under "FINISHED" "BEING CONSTRUCTED" or "PROPOSED/AWAITING APPROVAL" - just something I've seen elsewhere. 2. Are all of those projects mentioned on the first page still active and not dead in the water? I had no idea so much was going on!! 3. What ever happened to the Fith and Forbes project? 4. How is all the new in-town living selling? For example, Heinz Loft, Encore, Cork Factory and 151 First Side? Are they booming? Sluggish? Any investors taking note?? 5. What ever happened to the 460 million dollar Cultural District Project essentially building a neighborhood downtown?? This is so exciting, i'm sorry for all the questions! I'll probably have more. Last edited by xyagentguy : 03-30-2007 at 05:46 AM. Reply With Quote xyagentguy View Public Profile Find all posts by xyagentguy #1555 Old 03-30-2007, 06:23 AM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 Welcome aboard, xyagentguy. Admittedly, this project compilation thread is a bit unorganized.. it's been growing organically and we seem to just discuss things as they happen. Maybe UrbaniDesDev can update the first post??? I'll give you a brief rundown of the projects listed on the front page... which is hardly comprehensive of what's been going on here... there's been a lot more projects since this thread was created a year ago. 1. 100 Seventh Street... now known as the Encore on 7th... completed last year... now 98 percent leased... will see a "deli" in its retail space soon. 151 apartments. 2. 151 Firstside... 82 condo project... under construction... topped out... to be completed later this year... over 50 condos are sold already. 3. PNC tower... known as Three PNC Plaza... site/foundation work under way... 23 story mixed-use "green" tower... luxury hotel, 28 condos, retail, office space... to be completed next year 4. Fourth and Wood condo conversion... historic 21-story Union Bank skyscraper... now known as Carlyle... interior demolition work to begin soon... 20 of 60 condos already sold... adjacent Commonwealth skyscraper to undergo residential conversion soon 5. Station Square development / casino proposal... Station Square lost out on the casino... developer Forest City had proposed several condo towers and other development on the vacant area there... and had previously mentioned they would go ahead with it even if they lost the casino race... but they have been silent on their plans since the lost the decision 6. Arena / Lower Hill development... this development was proposed by Isle of Capri... another losing casino bidder... however... the arena is now a go... it will be located in the Lower Hill / Uptown area... casino winner Don Barden has pledged about $300 million to Lower Hill development... though few specifics on the development have emerged thus far... the Penguins also have the rights to development on 28 acres surrounding the new arena 7. South Side Works hotel... I haven't heard much about this lately... but I assume it's going on... it's supposed to be around 15 stories, I think... the SouthSide Works mixed-use development opened a few years ago... but is still undergoing the completion of a few elements... such as additional condo buildings, the hotel, a Hofbrauhaus, and maybe another office building... American Eagle is locating their HQ in the SouthSide Works soon 7. Sixth and Wood condo conversion... the Granite Building is current under conversion to 9 condos 8. Asian International Center and South Side Works... this project is dead... however a project of similar scale is rumoured to take its place 9. Armstrong Cork was converted to 295 residential units and opened late last year 10. Heinz Lofts... converted to about 260 residential units a couple years ago... I don't have the numbers but I've heard it's been successful 11. Subway Extensions... the plans have been adjusted due to economic realities... the Convention Center / Strip District spur has been dropped... the North Shore Connector has started construction and will be completed in 4 years... it will tunnel underneath the Allegheny and travel for a mile along the North Shore... there will be a couple new stations 12. African American Cultural Center... downtown site has been cleared and construction should start soon 13. North Shore developments... ongoing process... 2 stadia, 2 large office buildings, 2 hotels, park improvements have been built this decade... casino will be built there... along with housing, more hotels, office, entertainment complex similar to Baltimore's Inner Harbor... continued restaurant development 14. Delmonte Center... example of North Shore development... completed... office building with restaurants 15. Cultural District redevelopment... to break ground later this year... biggest project in Pittsburgh... 700 downtown residential units in multiple towers of up to 30 stories... retail, art venues, parspaces, etc.... "green" neighborhood... called Riverparc 16. Convention Center Hotel... stalled project... though the convention people continue to clamor for it... despite this... hotel construction has been booming in the city 17. Penn Ave. Downtown residential district... the hotspot of downtown... residential conversions have been ongoing in this area since 1999 and continue to pick up steam... 18. O'Reilley Theatre... this was completed several years ago by the Cultural Trust 19. Courtyard Marriott... opened a couple years ago on Penn Ave 20. Duquesne University expansion... currently under construction So of the first page projects... the ones that are either dead, stalled or of uncertain status are Asian International Center, Convention Center Hotel and the losing casino proposals... as well as the Strip District subway spur there's lots more going on discussed on later pages in this thread... we really should organize everything into one easy to read post with vital stats for each project... As for Fifth and Forbes... local developer Millcraft was chosen to develop much of the area. They are currently developing the old Lazarus store into Piatt Place... a mixed-use project featuring 65 condos, office space, Capitol Grille, "european" style grocer, etc. They are also converting the old G.C. Murphy building to residential and will then construct an 18-story residential tower on Forbes Ave. Downtown residential has been selling extremely well... and above expectations of the developers. The developers of 151 FirstSide and Carlysle have raised their prices repeatedly due to demand. The condo projects have been selling quickly even before work has begun. As stated previously, Encore is now 98 percent leased... the massive Heinz Loft has been a bit slower but I heard is doing well... I dont have any info on how Cork Factory is doing... but it only recently opened... Downtown has seen increasing interest from outside investors. A number of downtown properties were flipped last year for great profit. Investors have also seized buildings such as the Clark... with an eye on attracting high-tech tenents. The 460 million dollar Cultural District project was mentioned previously.. it is called Riverparc and will begin construction later this year. Please continue to contribute! Our community should try to organize these projects into an easy-to-read collection. __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1556 Old 03-30-2007, 06:25 AM UrbaniDesDev's Avatar UrbaniDesDev UrbaniDesDev is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: Pittsburgh Posts: 148 BankofManhattan I loved your renderings. Truthfully, being sooo close to the other PNC buildings would really render the surrounding plaza very dark. I personally like the look of the new tower, very slick. I don't think it is going slowly tho. It always seems slow while they are digging. Once the structure begins to rise it generally goes up quickly. I'm frankly surprised it is going so quickly considering all the politics involved in this project. Ive always felt, and hoped, that the block along Wood Street between Fifth and Forbes would support a mixed use tower with some real height. maybe this will happen! XYagentguy welcome. The Carlysle is just getting started. All units in the developments seem to be going quickly. I believe one of the articles Evergrey posted has the details. The Cultural District project is planned to develop over the next 10 years. I hope it moves along quickly. I'm anxious to see it begin. I wish they would put giant billboards up at each corner to show there is something planned for this lot. It looks terrible now. Thanks to Evergrey for making this the one stop shop for all the development info going on in town. Its a real time saver. I would hate make any changes that might break the flow that we have going. I would hate to subdivide this thread. They would become competing threads and perhaps fall by the way side, s I've seen others go. I like how all the development changes along the way have all been covered and discussed. In fact there are projects here that, when first discussed, were proposals and are now completed. I agree it has become a bit cumbersome but it is a very comprehensive list of projects and thoughts. I would hate to diminish it by splitting up the posters. It is almost like a chronicle of thoughts and opinions regarding the transformation of Pittsburgh. There is a minimum of baseless rants here. I want to thank all the participants here for making this an enjoyable and informative read, particularly Evergrey for your diligence. Last edited by UrbaniDesDev : 03-30-2007 at 07:43 AM. Reply With Quote UrbaniDesDev View Public Profile Find all posts by UrbaniDesDev #1557 Old 03-30-2007, 06:26 AM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 speaking of that stalled convention center hotel http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07089/773677-28.stm Future of city's convention business could be bright Despite problems at convention center, city's future as a destination may be bright Friday, March 30, 2007 By Elwin Green, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette When staffers from VisitPittsburgh attended a trade convention for the tourism industry at the beginning of the month, they expected visitors to their booth to launch an onslaught of questions about the Feb. 5 collapse of a section of flooring in the David L. Lawrence Convention Center. Instead, "We did not have a single customer ask us about that situation," Joseph McGrath told reporters yesterday during a briefing prior to the agency's annual meeting. In fact, VisitPittburgh's president and chief executive officer believes the ultimate outcome of the incident and of the frenetic work that followed may have been an enhanced reputation. "We were able to save every single piece of business that we had booked at the center," he said, and now potential customers "know that we deliver not only in facilities in southwestern Pennsylvania, but in service." Pittsburgh hosted 36 major conventions last year and has 38 slated so far for 2007, with "a couple more in the wings," he said. Through the year 2015, he said, the center has a total of 77 events already booked, which VisitPittsburgh expects to generate $229 million in so-called direct spending -- or spending that it's estimated visitors and vendors directly spend on tickets, hotel rooms, food, supplies and entertainment. It's devoid of the so-called multiplier effect, which tends to inflate such spending by accounting for the additional spending spawned by the direct spending. But far and away, the home run of the year was the Major League Baseball All-Star Game, which brought 200,000 visitors who spent an estimated $52.3 million on tickets, rooms, food and the like. But while speaking confidently about the city's future as a convention destination, Mr. McGrath also sounded a note of frustration about the continuing lack of a large convention hotel. "We could do considerably better if we had a headquarters hotel that was in excess of a thousand rooms," he said. "Last year, we lost 90,000 room-nights," a hotel room occupied for one night, "because we did not have a headquarters hotel that matched our facility." The Westin Convention Center hotel currently attached to the convention center has 618 rooms. The Sports & Exhibition Authority budgeted $104 million in 2002 for the construction of a new hotel that would attach another 500 rooms to the convention center. Cleveland-based developer Forest City pledged $70 million toward that project, and the state's slots machine law earmarked $34 million from new casinos to be built in the state. "As soon as those slots revenues begin to roll, I think we'll see some forward movement" in developing the new hotel, Mr. McGrath said. But when that will be has become an open question, as gaming licenses awarded in both Pittsburgh and Philadelphia have been challenge in court. When the Pennsylvania Gaming Control Board awarded the Pittsburgh gaming license to PITG Gaming LLC, developer Don Barden projected that his Majestic Star casino would open by March 2008, a projection based on starting construction in January. But legal challenges by losing bidders Forest City Enterprises and Isle of Capri Casinos Inc. mean that construction cannot begin until the state Supreme Court renders a decision, and the court will not even hear arguments in the case until mid-May. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- (Elwin Green can be reached at egreen@post-gazette.com or 412-263-1969. ) ... 4th amongst US states for tourism... over New York??? __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1558 Old 03-30-2007, 06:27 AM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/07089/773691-192.stm Home stand: The city wins with the Oak Hill compromise Friday, March 30, 2007 Pittsburgh Post-Gazette At times it seemed as if the battle for Oak Hill would never end. More than a decade after Allequippa Terrace, one of the city's worst public-housing tracts, was leveled to make way for a new mixed-income neighborhood, the development was mired in lawsuits, community protests and a bitter turf war with the University of Pittsburgh. In recent months, the Oak Hill proposal in the Hill District began to loom as a potential political liability for Mayor Luke Ravenstahl's administration. Residents lobbied the new mayor to honor the original agreement, but it looked as if he was prepared to follow his predecessor's lead. During Mayor Bob O'Connor's brief tenure, then-housing authority board chairman Dennis Regan sided with Pitt in its dispute with Oak Hill residents over a 12-acre site set aside for the final phase of the development. The land at the center of the dispute has one of the most desirable vistas in the city; the residents and the university both coveted it. Pitt lobbied the authority to renegotiate the original agreement with the residents, citing its long-standing interest in building athletic fields closer to the university. Many of the development's residents were outraged by the authority's willingness to renege on the original agreement and risk losing a promising mixed-income neighborhood that would sustain itself. Hundreds of residents who had moved out of Allequippa Terrace believed the city's promise that they would be allowed to return in a few years. They looked forward to new homes on land where Pitt wanted to build soccer and baseball fields. Beacon/Corcoran Jennison, the Oak Hill development's Boston-based builder and manager, sued the university and was close to taking the housing authority to court when hard-nosed negotiations by all parties -- including the mayor's office -- produced an agreement last week. Pitt will get the Robinson Court site it has wanted in exchange for $4 million for the land, $1 million for programs for residents and $2 million in lease payments for commercial buildings in the development. Meanwhile, 450 new residences will be built for the next phase of Oak Hill on a site stretching toward the Hill District's Reed and Kirkpatrick streets. The final phase of the $90 million development will continue to be built by BCJ, with groundbreaking scheduled for 2008. Congratulations are due to the Oak Hill Residents Council for fighting tenaciously to regain the project's lost momentum. Its example of citizen action is a model for other communities. Housing authority Executive Director A. Fulton Meachem Jr., the University of Pittsburgh and Mayor Ravenstahl's office also are to be commended for their efforts to improve this corner of the city with a neighborhood built on diversity. __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all post by Evergrey #1559 Old 03-30-2007, 06:58 AM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 this is an example of what I'd like to have... an easy-to-read overview of projects detailing vital stats... we could break them down by residential, commercial, civic, mixed-use, whatever... just an example... I'll probably expand on this with the rest of the projects when I have time Encore on 7th Status: Completed Description: 151-unit 18-story apartment building. Deli to locate in retail space. Location: Downtown 151 FirstSide Status: Under Construction Description: 82-unit 18-story condo building Location: Downtown Three PNC Plaza Status: Under Construction Description: 23-story 780,000 sq. foot LEED-certified "green" mixed-use tower. 28 condos, Fairmount "luxury" hotel, offices for PNC and Reed Smith, retail, ballroom, underground parking. Location: Downtown The Carlyle Status: Under Conversion Description: 21-story Union National Bank, built in 1906, converted into 60 condos. Location: Downtown Commonwealth Building Status: Proposed Conversion Description: 21 story Commonwealth Building, built in 1906, proposed conversion to 50-60 residential units Location: Downtown Piatt Place Status: Under Conversion Description: Adaptive reuse of vacant 7-year old Lazarus retail location. Mixed-use facility featuring 65 condos, 50,000 sq. ft. of retail, 150,000 sq. ft. of office, Capitol Grille, McCormick & Schmick's, possible "European style" grocer. Three levels of condos to be constructed on top of existing structure. Location: Downtown Granite Building Status: Under Conversion Description: Built in 1890, former German National Bank converted into 6 condos. Location: Downtown Riverparc Status: Approved, Construction of Phase 1 to Begin Late 2007 Description: LEED-certified "Green Neighborhood". 700 residential units in multiple towers of up to 30 stories, as well as townhouses. 900,000 sq. ft. of residential space, 159,000 sq. ft. of retail, 45,000 sq. ft. art venue, structured parking, public spaces. 10 year build out. Location: Downtown __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Last edited by Evergrey : 03-30-2007 at 02:12 PM. Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1560 Old 03-30-2007, 03:55 PM xyagentguy xyagentguy is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 40 Evergrey I can't thank you enough for all that information that must have taken you some time to write! It was extremely helpful!!! This Cultural Project is absolutely astounding. It will literally transform this city. There will be very few "run down" spots left in downtown. I think the way you gave descriptions and status in your last post examples is PERFECT. I think the projects completed in the last year or two should even be included like SouthSide Works and MarketDistrict and Giant Eagle lofts. These are big deals! I was wondering if anything was still planned for the golden triangle? One last thing, I actually live downtown in Chatham Towers and I had heard a rumor once that Giant Eagle and Target (who have many contracts with one another and are often side by side in Pittsburgh) have looked into buying one of the buildings downtown and converting it into a few story Giant Eagle/Target combo. This idea is brilliant and might be a great thing to petition these two companies for. I think downtown would just TAKE OFF! More than it is now! Reply With Quote xyagentguy View Public Profile Find all posts by xyagentguy #1561 Old 03-30-2007, 03:57 PM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 Biz Times updates: 1. Local developer Crystal Springs is planning to build 299 homes on 229 acres in Springhill Township in southern Fayette County along Route 43 just a few miles north of the WV line.. yay for Morgantown WV sprawl! The site is abou halfway between Morgantown and Uniontown. Crystal Springs is also eyeing a nearby site of over 600 acres for development. This housing development is in a Keystone Opportunity Zone... so residents won't have to pay property taxes and state and local income taxes for several years... nice perk lol. It's the first large "neighborhood development" in Fayette Co. since the 700-unit Bear Rocks... started in the 60s. 10% of Morgantown's workforce commutes from Pennsylvania... if Morgantown steals Fayette from our metro... I'll really be pissed lol. In the same article... and somewhat more urban... one of the developers is also involved with a housing development in Pittsburgh's Hays neighborhood... the forgotten mysteryland of the city. They're working on a 60-unit second phase of the 160-acre residential development.. 26 homes have been completed already. I was just in Hays and didn't notice this... anyone know exactly where it's at? Here's a list of large-scale recent housing developments in our region... of course the North Hills / ButlerCo dominates: Adams Ridge, Adams Township, 1000 units, under construction Park Place, Cranberry Township, 800 units, under construction Summerset at Frick Park, Pittsburgh's Squirrel Hill, 710 units, under construction Treesdale, Adams Township, 1000 units, complete Village at Pine, Pine Township, 500 units, under construction ... 2. Concerning xyagent's question about urban residential sales... there is an article called "Condo sales not soaring yet, but developers say interest will pick up"... which goes against the picture that has been painted by most other media sources... one example they use is the Carlyle... which has sold 20 of its 61 units despite not beginning interior demolition yet. In most other media sources... and from the project's developer himself... this was touted as very successful... although the article claims the Carlyle began marketing itself in 2005. In fact, it has been mentioned in previous articles that the Carlyle has actually raised its prices due to great demand. Piatt Place: Sales began 8 months ago and 18 of 65 units have been sold... which Millcraft said is not behind schedule. Remaining 47 units range from $300k-$1.4 million. Millcraft will "wait to sell a few more" condos before beginning construction of the residential portion of Piatt Place... which they hope to complete by the third quarter of 2008. 151 FirstSide: 56 of 81 condos have been sold. Units range from $300k-$1.9 million. Marketing began in July 2004 (I don't even think I heard about this project until 2005). It has been mentioned in previous articles... including very recently... that selling 2/3 at this point in its construction was considered excellent. Developer is "pleased" by sales. 5859 Beacon St.: 19 of 28 condos in this recently-completed Squirrel Hill property have been sold. Purchase price is $415k. Developer has included incentives to drive sales... such as granite countertops and a FREE parking space... is this really a problem or is this normal activity??? Lofts on Baum: 6 of 28 units have been sold in this East Liberty project. "Sales have been slow". In response, developer has added exercise room and terrace area.. is this a bad thing? Improving the product to drive sales. Since then, one of the two $600k penthouses has sold. Site has been cleared but construction has not started yet when I looked recently. Not mentioned in the article is the Metropolitan Shadyside... which is nearing completion and has over 60% sold... which has also been touted as successful in previous articles. The Blackbird Lofts in Lawrenceville has also been reported to have had very successful sales... I think it might be sold out or close to sold out now. I haven't heard anything about sales in projects such as the Giant Eagle MarketHouse or the Grant School in Bellevue. So basically... while I appreciate the hard info presented in the article... I think that perhaps the editorializing is a bit harsh and/or misguided. I'm not an expert... just my speculation. ... 3. 601 Grant Street s for sale. It's a 17-story structure built in 1958. Assessed market value of $15.6 million. Major tenent is FHLBank Pittsburgh, which leases 72% of space. CB Richard Ellis projects Downtown's office rates will increase from stagnant levels over the next few years. ... __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Last edited by Evergrey : 03-30-2007 at 04:03 PM. Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1562 Old 03-30-2007, 04:28 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 Big housing plan for Fayette 299 homes could be built inside KOZ Pittsburgh Business Times - March 30, 2007by Ben Semmes A West Homestead-based developer is planning what could be the largest residential community in the history of Fayette County and one of the largest in the region in recent years. Crystal Springs Investors Inc. expects to close within the next few weeks on 229 acres of property on Gans-Woodbridge Road in Springhill Township, a lightly populated area just a few miles north of the West Virginia border, where it plans to develop 299 single-family home sites. The company also has its eye on another 625-acre parcel, across from the main property, where it is considering future commercial and industrial development, as well as additional housing. Both properties, just off of Route 43, are owned by the Fay-Penn Economic Development Council, a Uniontown-based economic development organization. Neither party would disclose the sales price for the parcels. Bill Rogers, owner of West Homestead-based All State Development Co., will serve as the project's president and lead developer, said Elliott Edelstein, vice president of Crystal Springs and an employee of First Funding Corp. in Monroeville. Rogers and Edelstein are partners in Crystal Springs. Their project would be the first large neighborhood development in Fayette County in decades, said Springhill Township supervisor Damon Hellen. It also would be one of only a handful of residential projects statewide being pursued in one of Pennsylvania's Keystone Opportunity Zones -- tax-free areas designated by the state to help attract mostly commercial development. The properties Crystal Springs plans to develop fall within one of four KOZs in Fayette County. Because of Springhill's rural setting and a lack of basic infrastructure near the site, the township has been unsuccessful in attracting much interest from companies to locate there. So far, only Greensburg-based Allegheny Energy Supply Co. has taken advantage of the tax-free zone, building its Gans Power Station just south of the proposed residential development, Hellen said. If Crystal Springs' project comes to fruition, homeowners would be exempt from property taxes, as well as state and local income tax, after living in the zone for 184 consecutive days, according to Greg Morgan, a spokesman with the state Department of Community and Economic Development. These benefits would extend until the expiration of the KOZ on Dec. 31, 2013. Morgan said there are about a half-dozen locations statewide where residential development is being pursued inside a KOZ site. The Fayette County commissioners late last year denied Crystal Springs' request to expand its project to include as many as 500 units. Hellen said Fay-Penn initially was opposed to using the KOZ site for residential development when it was created in 1998. However, Fay-Penn President and CEO Michael W. Krajovic said the organization has since reconsidered. "Initially we looked at the property for more industrial (use)," he said. "But the need for housing has become so acute, we feel this would be serving a higher purpose." Both Krajovic and Hellen agreed that ultimately the township's tax base would be improved if the development is completed. While potential residents would be exempt from property taxes for some time, the money they save might be used to boost the local economy, Krajovic said. "That could be used to furnish the home, (make) local retail purchases, pav the driveway, put a deck on the back," he said. "This is creating an opportunity." Crystal Springs plans to sell its plots for an average of $70,000 to $75,000 each, Edelstein said. He said he's talked with several homebuilders about partnering on the project, but declined to name them. Edelstein said Rogers, who did not return a phone call seeking comment, is also working on a 60-unit, second phase of a 160-acre residential development in Pittsburgh's Hays neighborhood, where 26 homes have already been built. Edelstein said Crystal Springs believes its Fayette County project can be a "catalyst for that area (between Uniontown and Morgantown, W.Va.) to really boom." Reply With Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1563 Old 03-30-2007, 04:30 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 Condo sales not soaring yet, but developers say interest will pick up Pittsburgh Business Times - March 30, 2007by Ben Semmes While sales at some of Pittsburgh's high-profile condominium projects have been sluggish, local developers and real estate brokers were optimistic this week that spring's arrival will jump-start interest. A survey of a handful of condominium projects Downtown and in the city's East End found that none are close to selling out yet -- even after almost three years of marketing, in one instance. Several condo projects are under way Downtown, including Piatt Place, a 65-unit redevelopment of the former Lazarus-Macy's department store. Lucas Piatt, vice president of real estate at Cecil Township-based Millcraft Industries, which is spearheading the project, said 18 units have been sold. Forty-seven units, ranging in price from $300,000 to $1.4 million, still remain. Piatt said sales, which started eight months ago, are not behind schedule. Still, Millcraft will wait to sell a few more units before it begins construction on the residential portion of the project, which it hopes to complete by the third quarter of 2008. Bill Dietrich, vice president of the new homes division at the Pittsburgh office of Coldwell Banker Real Estate Inc., said 56 of 81 units have been sold so far at 151 First Side. Marketing for the Downtown condo project, which is being developed by Ralph A. Falbo Inc. with Strip District-based EQA Landmark Properties and O'Hara-based Zambrano Corp., began in July 2004. Dietrich said he's pleased so far with sales of the units, which range in price from $300,000 to $1.9 million. Twenty of the 61 units have sold at The Carlyle, where prices range from $200,000 to $1.9 million. Marketing began in July 2005, but Dietrich expects sales to pick up. One developer has offered incentives to lure buyers for its high-end units. 5859 Beacon St., a recently completed four-story project in Squirrel Hill, has sold 19 condos and has nine remaining, said Cliff Schultz, condominium division manager at O'Hara-based Howard Hanna Real Estate Services Inc. But to try to sell the remaining units, the developer installed granite countertops and stainless steel fixtures and included a parking space in the $415,000 purchase price. The same approach was used when sales dragged at McMurray-based Crossgates Inc.'s 28-unit Lofts on Baum project, planned for East Liberty. The units have been on the market for close to year, and so far about six of them have sold, Schultz said. "Sales had been slow," Schultz said. "We reconfigured the building (a few months ago). Now, there is an exercise room on the top floor, a terrace area for all the residents to use. Since then, we have sold one of the two penthouses (for just over $600,000)." Eve Picker, head of no wall productions and a developer of several loft projects Downtown, said that while sales of some properties may be sluggish, especially in unproved residential markets like Downtown, she expects them to pick up soon. "Pittsburghers are not known for being quick on the uptake," Picker said. "There will be a small number of people who are pioneers ... and the others will be les brave. You have to reach the tipping point." Reply With Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1564 Old 03-30-2007, 04:30 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 Downtown office building for sale as bank searches for new space Pittsburgh Business Times - March 30, 2007by Ben Semmes A 163,000-square-foot Downtown office building is being marketed for sale as its largest tenant considers relocating. The Sheet Metal Workers' National Pension Fund, which owns the 17-story building at 601 Grant St., is soliciting offers on the property, said Tom MacDonald, senior vice president with Downtown-based CB Richard Ellis/Pittsburgh and the building's leasing agent. FHLBank Pittsburgh, formerly known as the Federal Home Loan Bank of Pittsburgh, which occupies roughly 118,000 square feet, confirmed that the institution is scouting the greater Pittsburgh region for new space. The bank's lease Downtown expires in May 2010. Neil Cotiaux, a bank spokesman, said the potential move is not related to any decision to decrease or expand the bank's local work force. "We are looking at all opportunities that would make sense for us across greater Pittsburgh," he said. "We are absolutely serious about seeking out the most cost-effective space we can find that makes sense for this bank." Cotiaux declined to say how much space the bank is searching for. David Linn, a consultant with the Cleveland-based Townsend Group, the real estate investment manager for the Sheet Metal Workers, said his company has advised the Sheet Metal Workers and other pension funds to sell off single properties in favor of commingled funds that invest in a variety of office buildings and retail centers. The pension fund's real estate arm, SMWNPF Holdings Inc., purchased the property in 1991 for $3.35 million, according to Allegheny County property records. The county says the building's total market value is $15.6 million. FHLBank Pittsburgh, which serves Pennsylvania, West Virginia and Delaware, moved to the building from One Riverfront Center, now known as National City Center, in 1994. At that time the move was necessitated by expansion, Cotiaux said. FHLBank Pittsburgh leases about 72 percent of the building's space. Cotiaux said FHLBank Pittsburgh employs 250 people on 11 stories in the building. The firm subleases part of the eighth floor and all of the ninth floor to Fiserv Inc. If FHLBank Pittsburgh decides to move in the near future, it could make a sale of the building more difficult. Paul Horan, a principal at NAI Pittsburgh Commercial on the North Side, previously worked on leasing the building as a broker with Downtown-based Grant Street Associates. "There are minimal other tenants other than the bank," he said. "Should the bank leave, that's a very large hole to fill." The potential of a major tenant leaving the building is always a concern, said MacDonald, of CB Richard Ellis. Still, MacDonald said that with several large tenants looking for space, the building is well positioned in a growing Downtown market. "I think the profile of the Downtown market is going to be strengthened in the near future," he said. "In the last several years you've seen office rates stagnant. We are not projecting that for the next two or three years moving forward." Reply With Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1565 Old 03-30-2007, 04:41 PM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 Quote: Originally Posted by UrbaniDesDev View Post Thanks to Evergrey for making this the one stop shop for all the development info going on in town. Its a real time saver. I would hate make any changes that might break the flow that we have going. I would hate to subdivide this thread. They would become competing threads and perhaps fall by the way side, as I've seen others go. I like how all the development changes along th way have all been covered and discussed. In fact there are projects here that, when first discussed, were proposals and are now completed. I agree it has become a bit cumbersome but it is a very comprehensive list of projects and thoughts. I would hate to diminish it by splitting up the posters. It is almost like a chronicle of thoughts and opinions regarding the transformation of Pittsburgh. There is a minimum of baseless rants here. I want to thank all the participants here for making this an enjoyable and informative read, particularly Evergrey for your diligence. Thank you, UrbaniDesDev... and thank you particularly for getting this thread started. xyagentguy and myself are not proposing any radical changes to the thread or the flow. What I think might be a good idea is to have a single "front page" post that quickly details all the major projects... their status, description, photo, etc... to serve as a quick comprehensive resource... especially for the casual visitor or outsider to this thread... additional discussion, updates and other discussion about transit, government, etc. can continue just like it has been. The front page post wouldn't be much different from your inaugural post... just with update maintenance and streamlined consistent information. It would have no negative impact on the "flow" of discussion we've been having... and would serve as a quick resource instead of having to labor through the 63 pages here. This thread will be closed when we reach around 2000 posts and a 2nd Pittsburgh thread will need to be created... which should attempt to follow the template I used for that example post I put together just a few posts ago. In the mean time... I'm going to continue expanding that example post with the rest of the projects. The revised organization will enhance discussion and be able to provide quick, current information. __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1566 Old 03-30-2007, 04:43 PM xyagentguy xyagentguy is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 40 Just a quick update. As of last November, Heinz Lofts had reached nearly 80% occupancy which I imagine they had hit and exceeded by now. http://www.popcitymedia.com/developm...39hnzlfts.aspx I think one problem is that developers need to transform some of these buildings into less HUGELY expensive condos and more smaller ones affordable for young professionals just getting out of the great Universities in the city. How do they expect young people to live downtown when some of the asking prices are nearly at or over a million dollars? I support high-end living COMPLETELY but they need to bring in some more stuff for "middle class" and single professionals. Reply With Quote xyagentguy View Public Profile Find all posts by xyagentguy #1567 Old 03-30-2007, 04:48 PM xyagentguy xyagentguy is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 40 Quote: Thank you, UrbaniDesDev... and thank you particularly for getting this thread started. xyagentguy and myself are not proposing any radical changes to the thread or the flow. What I think might be a good idea is to have a single "front page" post that quickly details all the major projects... their status, description, photo, etc... to serve as a quick comprehensive resource... especially for the casual visitor or outsider to this thread... additional discussion, updates and other discussion about transit, government, etc. can continue just like it has been. Absolutely! And thank you too UrbaniDesDev! I would also recommend every time you make a change to the front page you send us a little shout about it! So no one misses anything! That is what the Seattle folk due in their threads and it's really helpful! Sometimes a member will write a new status on the forum, the dev will change it on front page, and then reply "done!" Simple as that! Reply With Quote xyagentguy View Public Profile Find all posts by xyagentguy #1568 Old 03-30-007, 04:50 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 Quote: How do they expect young people to live downtown when some of the asking prices are nearly at or over a million dollars? I support high-end living COMPLETELY but they need to bring in some more stuff for "middle class" and single professionals. This question keeps coming, but the answer is plainly is as you said - it costs a lot more money to build or purchase and revonate downtown buildings. Additionally there is always a demand to live in a downtown. In most cases it going to be pricier. It is just a reality. Frankly it is not going to be a middle class area (other than student housing) and really that's fine. Let it grow organically and downtown will progress fine. Reply With Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1569 Old 03-30-2007, 04:58 PM xyagentguy xyagentguy is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 40 Well I don't necessarily mean middle class like 140k condos. But I wouldn't see anything wrong with a place having condo's starting at 200k and maxing out at 500k. I could be completely naive in this assumption, but lets say some of the large pent house condo's are a million dollars. That is one way to do it. Or maybe three to four smaller condos could fit in the same surface area for about 200 - 300k. Isn't it going to even out a little bit in the end? Wouldn't a building with a lot more "less expensive" (200 - 500k) be about the same as a condo with a lot less but larger, more complex, more luxurious "more expensive" condos? Oh! Well I guess there are a plethora of these kind of places being built based on the post below :> Last edited by xyagentguy : 03-30-2007 at 05:08 PM. Reply With Quote xyagentguy View Public Profile Find all posts by xyagentguy #1570 Old 03-30-2007, 04:58 PM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,682 Quote: Originally Posted by themaguffin View Post This question keeps coming, but the answer is plainly is as you said - it costs a lot more money to build or purchase and revonate downtown buildings. Additionally there is always a demand to live in a downtown. In most cases it going to be pricier. It is just a reality. Frankly it is not going to be a middle class area (other than student housing) and really that's fine. Let it grow organically and downtown will progress fine. Correct. I do think one strategy could be to reduce costly amenities and thereby reduce the asking price... but developers are gonna do whatever is most profitable for them. And right now their prices are responding to demand. The Keystone Picture Frame building on Liberty is one example of a more "affordable" condo concept... the developer is planning 12 condos in the $200k range... which is still expensive but significantly lower than just about all of the other condo development downtown. The rental projects seem to be a bit more diverse however... Century Building conversion is designed for "workforce housing"... for example. And I just thought of one other condo project in response to the Biz Times article... the Solera Ventures project on Penn Ave. downtown has sold 8 of 18 units despite not beginning construction yet. Prices range from $300k-700k. __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" Reply With Quote Evergrey View Public Profile Find all posts by Evergrey #1571 Old 03-30-2007, 05:12 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 That's another point too. These condos are in fact much cheaper than our neighbors to the east. Granted Philly, DC and NYC are bigger. That said a $200,000 condo in a downtown the size of Pgh's is not bad at all. It does appear with more happening and so many older buildings being converted some will market lower. I now that Piatt has promised some lower than $200, but I would be surprised if his were. Reply Wth Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1572 Old 03-30-2007, 05:15 PM themaguffin themaguffin is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2005 Posts: 855 And oh EG, as I mentioned yesterday I wrote to Live Nation. I copied 3 of the executives and one replied with a standard "we try" blah blah blah... Quote: Thanks for your note. We appreciate all of the comments and suggestions we get. We book a wide variety of acts at the Post Gazette and try and find the right balance between classic rock, country, etc. We will continue to work hard to bring the right mix of shows to Pittsburgh. Again, we appreciate your comments and will make sure that everybody who books shows in Pittsburgh continues to work hard to make this a first class facility. Reply With Quote themaguffin View Public Profile Find all posts by themaguffin #1573 Old 03-30-2007, 06:52 PM xyagentguy xyagentguy is offline Registered User Join Date: Mar 2007 Posts: 40 I know these URLs are little off the beatin' path, but I thought with all this Pittsburgh excitement these are a really nice read. click! http://www.popcitymedia.com/features...%20cities.aspx http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/05086/477864.stm If anyone has any similar links, please send them to me, I save them Last edited by xyagentguy : 03-30-2007 at 07:00 PM. Reply With Quote xyagentguy View Public Profile Find all posts by xyagentguy #1574 Old 03-31-2007, 12:35 AM BMikeSci's Avatar BMikeSci BMikeSci is offline Sic luceat lux Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downtown PGH Posts: 272 Touching base on the North Shore By Eric Heyl TRIBUNE-REVIEW Friday, March 30, 2007 Quite a new look the North Shore is sporting these days. Most likely, you haven't noticed. The North Shore typically assumes a post-apocalyptic atmosphere from the final Steelers game until baseball season begins in April. But the North Shore's annual hibernation is all but over. And the folks preparing to pack PNC Park will see many new sights in the ever-evolving neighborhood as the Pirates aggressively pursue their 15th consecutive losing season. Sights such as: New subway construction Port Authority is extending the T from Downtown to the North Shore, but the $435 million project is expected to have minimal impact. Anticipate only some detoured roads, longer traffic jams, fewer parking spaces, shorter tempers and the heavy equipment digging a subway tunnel rendering spirited versions of "Take Me Out to The Ball Game," virtually inaudible this season. New eateries People soon will be able to choose between outdoor dining at the new Irish pub, the new cantina, the new steakhouse and the new retired jock restaurant. Expect each of the new restaurants to offer complimentary construction dust with all entrees. New sidewalks Pay no heed to people complaining that a portion of the sidewalks around PNC Park needed replaced less than six years after the stadium opened. Those folks probably are the same killjoys griping about the ballpark also being on its third video scoreboard. Sure, it's ridiculous to spend $160,000 to repair the relatively new sidewalk. But that's better than doing nothing, and then having to spend twice that amount to settle a lawsuit from someone who tripped over the cracked pavement and chipped several teeth on the bronze thigh of the Willie Stargell statue. New parking garage Technically, the West General Robinson Street garage isn't new. But so few people have used the $28 million facility since it opened last June that it still remains eligible for the local parking structure rookie-of-the-year award. For those still uncertain about the garage location, here are handy directions: Drive into the middle of the North Shore construction zone, and pass numerous orange barrels and confusing detour signs until being stopped by a flagman. Endure a lengthy delay, swerve around two bulldozers, narrowly miss being clipped by a dump truck and then pull directly into the entrance. I understand plentyof monthly leases for the garage remain available. Eric Heyl is a Pittsburgh Tribune-Review staff writer. He can be reached at eheyl@tribweb.com or (412) 320-7857. __________________ "If you're going to be thinking, you may as well think big." --- Quoted from Donald Trump Reply With Quote BMikeSci View Public Profile Visit BMikeSci's homepage! Find all posts by BMikeSci #1575 Old 03-31-2007, 12:38 AM BMikeSci's Avatar BMikeSci BMikeSci is offline Sic luceat lux Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downtown PGH Posts: 272 RiverParc development will force relocation of opera By Mark Kanny TRIBUNE-REVIEW CLASSICAL MUSIC CRITIC Friday, March 23, 2007 Pittsburgh Opera is facing the biggest move of its 67-year history. The opera will be forced to vacate its Downtown headquarters, which houses its administrative offices and rehearsal space, when its lease expires in March 2008. General director Mark Weinstein says the opera may need to raise $5 million or more for the move, including adapting the new location to the company's needs. But, he says "something like this is better viewed as an opportunity than as a costly distraction from our core business of producing opera. ... I am confident we will be able to maintain the quality of the operas on stage under any circumstances." He says ticket prices will not be affected by the costs of finding and moving to a new home. The opera's current location at 801 Penn Ave., leased from Pittsburgh Cultural Trust, will be part of the $460 million RiverParc mixed-use development project, which will include 700 residential units. When the opera moved into 801 Penn Ave, 10 years ago, it meant "twice the space for half the cost in a sweetheart deal with the Trust," Weinstein says. Opera and Trust sources declined to reveal financial details of the lease. "We're going to work with the opera to have an easy transition," says Kevin McMahon, Trust president and chief executive officer. "It's also certainly within the realm of possibility there will be some lease extension." And while opera and Trust leaders hope the opera will remain based in the Cultural District, Weinstein says finding a suitable space could be difficult. Potential locations could be in the Strip District, South Side or North Side. Regardless, Weinstein would like to improve rehearsals with the move. "If we can increase the quality of our rehearsals, we can increase the quality onstage," he says. The opera now begins rehearsals in a large room at its headquarters. Then the artists work for a week in rehearsal rooms on the second floor of the Benedum Center. But performers finish with just one week of rehearsals with the set on the Benedum stage. Weinstein hopes to have rehearsal space similar in size to the Benedum stage, so performers will have more time with a full set. He also wants to use the new space as a black-box theater to present chamber operas and continue its free "Brown-Bag Lunch" performances. The opera's finances have been stable since Weinstein arrived in 1997, including elimination of $2.5 million in debt. Its annual budget has been balanced at about $8 million, give or take a half million, for the past decade. Its endowment has risen in the same time period from $4 million to $16 million. Mark Kanny can be reached at mkanny@tribweb.com or (412) 320-7877. __________________ "If you're going to be thinking, you may as well think big." --- Quoted from Donald Trump Reply With Quote BMikeSci View Public Profile Visit BMikeSci's homepage! Find all posts by BMikeSci Reply Page 63 of 114 + First <
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The time now is 08:13 PM. SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Top Powered by vBulletin. Version 3.6.4 Copyright )2000 - 2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. == vergrey Evergrey is online now John Tesh Radio Show Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 11,685 Quote: Originally Posted by themaguffin View Post High taxes don't help, but I don't believe that's what keeps most people out. People move to Pittsburgh and they move to very costly coastal cities as well. We (the country) are headed in a downturn in the economy. The housing issue has hardly bottomed out and has already forced thousands of banking/mortgage layoffs, home building companies to struggle (and I assume layoff) and the spill of this can't even begin to be calculated. What I hope is, that Pittsburgh has enough job growth in the next few years to do (relatively) well. Less people leave when the economy sucks everywhere and that leads to better local numbers. In the early 90's the meant population increases and unfortunately it didn't stick, when the economy boomed in the mid/late 90's, the exodus surged. Earlier this decade we almost saw gains again, but the numbers never quite made it happen. Certainly the growth areas of education and medical fields won't suffer much in a recession and companies like Westinghouse's plans won't change, but the region will still needs more to happen. If we cold prevent just a few thousand people less to leave a year, get a few thousand more come and improve the int'l annual gain of 2,500 or so to even 5,000 or so, then I think we would see some momentum. This isn't exactly aiming high either. Although you may be correct about the national recession of the early 90s contributing to the only 3 years of population growth since 1970 in the Pittsburgh MSA, the late 90s actually saw extremely low out-migration rates. The late 90s is when the deaths starting to outnumber births because we lost all those young adults (and their future children) during the 80s and were left with all these old people who started dying off. Check out this study from 2000 about Pittsburgh MSA population trends. There is a chart on page 3 that shows Pittsburgh having both the lowest out-migration rate and in-migration rate of the Top 25 MSAs in 1998-1999. http://www.smartpolicy.org/pdf/pitmigration.pdf The problem isn't any exceptional rate of out-migration ... but a lack of in-migration and the birth deficit that is a legacy of the 80s exodus. We are one of the only major regions in the country that experiences a birth deficit... and it will continue to be a drag on regional population due to our larger percentage of seniors and declining fertility (a national trend). Pittsburgh's age demographic situation will work itself out in the coming years. http://www.economist.com/world/na/Pr...ory_id=7914950 The 90s saw solid economic recovery for the Pittsburgh Region in response to the steel collapse of the 80s. In 2001, the labor force population was at an all-time high... much of this due to rapidly increasing female participation in a previously male-dominated heavy-industry regional economy. This is another reason we didn't experience net population growth despite economic growth in the 90s... because we already had the potential workers here. Unfortunately, 9/11 had a huge negative effect on the Pittsburgh Region. The entire country went into recession... but it took Pittsburgh a couple more years to snap out of the malaise. Much of the job loss is directly attributable to USAirways' elimination of 11,000 jobs in the past 6 years. The Pittsburgh Region has posted modest job gains the past few years... and the economic forecast is increasingly positive... but we still remain just shy of the 2001 job peak. The primary drag on the Pittsburgh economy has been population-dependent sectors... which includes retail, transportation/warehousing, government (including school districts), low-wage service. Pittsburgh has been successful in growing high-wage sectors, such as health care, higher education, tech, engineering, etc. This is reflected in Pittsburgh ranking 19th out of the top 100 metros in personal income growth in the past 25 years. The net job growth has been miniscul due to the exodus of the 80s and resultant drag on population-dependent sectors... but the quality of jobs has increased dramatically from the days of heavy manufacturing. __________________ "Intelligence for your life!" == MikeSci BMikeSci is offline Sic luceat lux Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Downtown PGH Posts: 272 Quote: Originally Posted by themaguffin View Post High taxes don't help, but I don't believe that's what keeps most people out. People move to Pittsburgh and they move to very costly coastal cities as well. We (the country) are headed in a downturn in the economy. The housing issue has hardly bottomed out and has already forced thousands of banking/mortgage layoffs, home building companies to struggle (and I assume layoff) and the spill of this can't even begin to be calculated. What I hope is, that Pittsburgh has enough job growth in the next few years to do (relatively) well. Less people leave when the economy sucks everywhere and that leads to better local numbers. In the early 90's the meant population increases and unfortunately it didn't stick, when the economy boomed in the mid/late 90's, the exodus surged. Earlier this decade we almost saw gains again, but the numbers never quite made it happen. Certainly the growth areas of education and medical fields won't suffer much in a recession and companies like Westinghouse's plans won't change, but the region will still needs more to happen. If we cold prevent just a few thousand people less to leave a year, get a few thousand more come and improve the int'l annual gain of 2,500 or so to even 5,000 or so, then I think we would see some momentum. This isn't exactly aiming high either. I moved to PGH so that I could live cheaply and well while the country goes through the second Bush recession. PGH is still a good housing investment haven for people who want to hide away for a few years while housing prices decline in the "zoned zones." I expect to see a lot of crime over the next four or five years in places that experience severe declines in real estate prices. PGH should remain a relatively stable oasis during the same period. The local economy in PGH has not been home equity driven. Many people in once booming real estate markets have been living by refinancing their homes every few years. Once that ends, many will find that "booming" real estate taxes alone will force them out. People tend not to be such great citizens when they become destitute. Opting for a larger building with good security seems like a smart idea On the other hand, if we start having hyper inflation, the other possible post-Bush outcome, real estate may be the best place to be. NYC real estate has remained high because of the large numbers of foreign investors whose native currency buys a lot with our cheapened dollar. They want to invest here, and they buy with their own currency in mind. The dollar's conversion rate makes prices seem high to americans and cheap to foreigners. The canadian dollar, for example, buys almost twice as many dollars as it bought when Shrub first took office. Thanks again George. Anyway, for me it's simple. I want to be in real estate because of very real inflationary threats, but I don't want to be in real estate markets that could take a real beating in a recession. Therefore, I selected Pittsburgh. People who have sold their homes and now chose to rent may find themselves unable to own a home in the future. Watch the Federal Reserve. Their continued cutting of the discount rate has immense inflationary pressure. Bush would like to be able to say that he left the White-house with good economic numbers. Pushing the Fed to lower rates at this point is his only hope of limping out without another disaster during his time. What lowering rates does to inflation is another story. Greenspan's interview on 60 minutes was very clear on this. Greenspan said that Shrub was the only president who ever pushed him to lower rates - irrespective of the outcome. Greenspan also said that inflation was the real worry. Finally, It is also possible that the American people can have a recession at the same time that foreign money causes inflation. Caught between the silla and charybdis of no decent jobs and expensive everything, americans may be in for really tough times. eople who hedge for inflation may at least keep roofs over their heads. __________________ "If you're going to be thinking, you may as well think big." --- Quoted from Donald Trump Reply With Quote == May 2009 Reply With Quote PA Pride View Public Profile Find all posts by PA Pride #6264 Old 05-27-2009, 09:57 PM Evergrey's Avatar Evergrey Evergrey is offline Stained Class Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Pittsburgh (Bloomfield) Posts: 19,244 Quote: Originally Posted by hyperion1110 View Post I get what you're saying, but I don't think it would be quite that easy to uproot so many businesses because of a tax. Sure, a lot of folks from the 'burbs would be ticked off. But, I assure you, the major employers, and, I would submit, most employers, would not be compelled to move their location because of a tax. PNC, US Steel, Allegheny Technologies, and all of the rest would not budge because of this. Moreover, and more importantly, the major city industries are necessarily bound to the city. Hospitals cannot move (and all off the major hospitals are in the city), the University of Pittsburgh is not going to move to Cranberry in a huff, and so on. The most likely outcome, in the beginning, would be that some people might quit their jobs in the city. That just means that the employers will look for new hires. And if suburbanites are going to be that dumb about it, employers will just hire from outside the region (darn!), and those people, seeing the tax structure, will just move into the city from the start. Right now, the city is not really getting much from all of its high-paying jobs. That is the real travesty! Moreover, the tax structurs as it is now has created all of these municipalities that are basically just collections of houses; nothing is really made there, so they become parasitic communities. For sustained prosperity, an economy must create something consumable, be it intellectual or material. The current tax system rewards leechers and punishes producers, as those communities that produce nothing gain at the expense of the producer. Ideally, then, if we maintain an income tax in the long run, it must be paid to the community that produces the consumable, from whence derives the income that is taxed. Otherwise, there is no impetus to change the current order; we will continue to build "communities" with no economic center. The "good life" should follow from producing a thing, then reaping the profits, not vice versa. Too many suburban communities are tax havens anymore. Bravo. Brilliant post. The CITY of Pittsburgh has one of the highest job densities in the nation... and it is home to the lion's share of high-paying jobs in the region. It features one of the most dramatic daytime population increases in America... and has two huge employment hubs... the corporate towers of Downtown and the cutting-edge research/higher-education/health care cluster in Oakland. The CITY is unquestionably the economic engine of Southwestern Pennsylvania... yet the municipality where all these jobs are locates does not reap the benefits. The CITY is so dramatically under-bounded and under-powered... meaning it's almost effortless for a worker to live only a few miles from Downtown yet reside in a suburban municipality... contributing virtually nothing to the CITY where their livelihood is created. This under-bounded CITY, however, houses all these functions in its small area due to the CITY's economic advantages of centralized location and industry cluster density. The CITY is the location where so much of the greater metropolitan region converges on a daily basis for economic, cultural and social activity. The CITY has to support the activity of a couple million people (infrastructure, public services, etc.) while only drawing on the incomes of a tiny sliver of that population... a population that is generally poorer than the greater region. This is why you have this never-ending situation where the city's finances are in dire straits. It doesn't really matter what the mayor or the councilors of the CITY of Pittsburgh do... the roots of the CITY's structural deficit are caused by the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania. The CITY plays by the rules the state sets... from the arbitration process with fire and police tha continually strains the budget and spawns apocalyptic pension liabilities (a process currently on pause thanks to the hugely flawed Act 47 Recovery oversight)... to the types of taxes (and limits) it can levy on resident incomes, commuters, businesses, non-profits, etc. It's a testament to the outstanding quality of the neighborhoods, business districts, amenities, beauty, people, built environment, etc. of the CITY that it has been able to withstand such massive challenges and retain a vibrant economic environment, sustain and revive so many livable and beautiful neighborhoods and attract a growing cohort of highly educated young adults. However, unless the CITY experiences some sort of miracle boom... it will be hard pressed to ever overcome its financial morass and provide optimal services and maintain infrastructure under the status quo municipal governance regime of Pennsylvania. The CITY's arcane horse-and-buggy era boundaries of 55 sq. miles trap it in a bygone era, failing to adjust to shifting socio-economic realities of the global marketplace, and limit its opportunities for growth and development. Containing only 1/4 of the county's population and less than 15% of the metro's population... the CITY is not much more than "just another municipality" in terms of political power in the region... hemmed in by obsolete mill municipalities, isolationist enclaves of wealth and ambitious exurban townships working at cross purposes with the urban core.